Installed

[Ryan]

My torque damper and fujita sri. I am about to go on a drive and test it out.

[Ryan]

Its a noticeable difference. The fujita has better throttle response above 4k for sure, and the sound is great. I am most impressed by the stiffy. There was always a little bit of a gap between upshifting the car under acceleration and feeling the power make contact to the ground. Now, its nearly instantaneous feeling smoother too. My buddy and I pulled out onto the hiway outa my neighborhood hard into 1st gear. I wrapped it out and upshifted to 2cd and the car hooked so hard that I spun all the way through 2cd. Its NEVER done that. Granted the ground was a little wet, but it still never did that before. Even when going through 3rd and into 4th, as soon as I upshifted it was just smooth and pulling hard again. Like butter! Ima install the tbs and tb gaskets maybe tomorrow.

[tehcodeman]

yeah, i love my stiffy!

hmmm, should've worded that better.....

[JustaSloWgn]

who doesnt!

[Xysatnaf]

what's a stiffy

[shftyazn]

sounds like i might need to get a stiffy soon, how long it take you to put those in ryan?!

[tehcodeman]

what's a stiffy

Ingalls torque dampner

[tehcodeman]

sounds like i might need to get a stiffy soon

http://www.jkemppainen.com/up/Owen%20Starsky%20&%20Hutch%20Signature%20Do%20It.jpg

[Ryan]

sounds like i might need to get a stiffy soon, how long it take you to put those in ryan?!

I'm almost embarrassed to admit, but I spent nearly 4 hours on the entire install. The stiffy took the longest, not because it was a hard install, but because I ran into a few hurdles. The bolts and lock nuts it came with were cross threaded and I had to search at 10 pm for some thread ease. I also didn't have a 22mm socket, and :banghead: I didn't read the instructions before the install. So, I ended up making two trips during the install I might not of had to make if I would have been more prepared. The Fujita was cake, minus removing the stock intake tubing. I took the battery out to remove all the old tubing, and missed a bolt at first that would have made removing it ALOT easier. It was close to 1am, and I was already pissed about having to make the two trips (using my buddy's car, who was drinking beer and watching me the whole install) for the other stuff. I started getting pissed and was about to just start ripping shit out....haha. I found the bolt and felt stupid, but other than that it was easy.

[Ryan]

Ima about to get ready and install the tbs and tb gaskets. I saw a dyno on 8gen civic where a stock k20z3 was fitted with the gaskets and tbs as the ONLY mod. It made 3lb ft/trq more at the wheel than stock, and about 4 whp too! Combining that with the Fujita, I'm hoping to gain more usable pwr from 4k to 6k.

[Matticus]

Man, just spray the damn thing already ROFL

[tehcodeman]

Ima about to get ready and install the tbs and tb gaskets. I saw a dyno on 8gen civic where a stock k20z3 was fitted with the gaskets and tbs as the ONLY mod. It made 3lb ft/trq more at the wheel than stock, and about 4 whp too! Combining that with the Fujita, I'm hoping to gain more usable pwr from 4k to 6k.

It's a pretty easy install. If you got the P2R spacer, then you might want to run to Lowes or something and get stainless bolts rather than use the ones that come with the spacer. Mine are sorta corroding, so I'll be replacing them soon.

[Ryan]

I just sprayed them with silicon spray. It protects against corosion, and I also used penetrating oil when threading in the new studs. I had to eat dinner, but am leaving in a sec to idle the car and then am gonna drive its nuts off! :vtec:

[Ryan]

Man, just spray the damn thing already ROFL

No way on the spray! If anything, I might could see supercharging it at like 6lbs boost ONEDAY. Nothing crazy for now, just the Hondata, T1R 70mm, and bcrh w/defouler as my next buys.

[Ryan]

I feel it on the top end for sure (6k+), and might actually have lost some on the bottom below 3.5k. Oh weel, its a Honda. Top end's what I got it for. :D

[Andrew]

congrats, good to see that you are happy and satisfied with your results from your purchases. Why not spray it? Nothing wrong with a little bottle for when you feel like really "driving the nuts out of it" Lol.
I have the bottle simply because I cant stand slow. I'm not fast with the bottle, just a bit faster and its really fun being able to play with cars that you normally would not stand more then a second with. Only down side is refilling quite often, depending on how much you spray.

Again congrats with purchase and gains/improvements you have noticed. Thats always the best part, feeling the difference on a new install.

[Ryan]

Thanks! :thumbsup:

[Matticus]

Any pictures? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?

[Ryan]

I can take some. Would you guys just want to see it all installed? I'll take some tnite when my gf gets home from wrk. She has the camera.


On seperate note, anyone with a k20z3 have the Hondata Reflash? I know I'm going to replace the exhaust and header next, but I've been trying to figure if the reflash alone (no kpro) is worth the $$. I've seen videos on youtube of a K20Z3 VS K20Z3 and one was stock ecu vs a reflashed ecu. Both cars also had some form of sri or cai and exhaust/header. Anyways, the reflashed k20z3 didn't pull the stock ecu on a 60mph+ run. They were neck and neck which surprised the shit out of me. The reflashed ecu makes midrange pwr, but only a negligible top end which is where a Honda really runs anyways. So, my thinking is that if midrange (4.5k rpms to 6k) is the only true gain with the reflash, is it even worth spending $600 plus shipping on? What do you guys think?

[tehcodeman]

I have the reflash on my Si.

Looks like you already know what it does, so I'll explain my experience with it.

Honda put the changeover point at 5800 for the fun factor (see diagram below, lol):

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2966/vtecgraphrm1.gif


^although that's meant to be funny, it's pretty close to the truth of the powerband curve for the Si (disregard the HP numbers on the graph). The reflash smooths out the power curve, almost linearly. If you like the little "kick" you get with VTEC now, then be prepared to say bye to it because that ~30hp spike in power when the second cam kicks in is much less audible with the reflash. But you are making more power in the midrange, so the car drives differently.

I don't spend all day in the upper RPMS, so it's nice to have VTEC during normal driving if I need it. If you're ever in the situation where you usually downshift to speed up, then having VTEC at 4500K can sometimes eliminate the need to downshift. Just step on the gas and you're good to go.

Another perk is that you don't have to worry about the RPMs falling under VTEC when upshifting during spirited driving. You'll always be in the VTEC range, whether you granny shift or not.

The reflash isn't going to make the car any faster really. From a dig, then yes...(all things being equal except for the reflash) a reflashed car will win. You'll have the midrange power advantage of 1st/2nd gear over the other car. But at a 60mph roll, both cars will already be at VTEC in the upper RPMS...so they advantages of the reflash don't come into play here.

The real benefits come with daily/spirited driving and not with track times. So is it worth $600? The price is definitely steeper than it should be IMO, but I would recommend it if you want to make the most out of your bolt-ons. Plus, if/when K-Pro comes out then Hondata will honor the reflash purchase by discounting K-Pro (like $500 off I think).

Pros:
1) Car is more fun to drive
2) Much more midrange power (and ~30hp at 6000k)
3) Makes use of bolt-ons (especially the header)
4) 8600 RPM sounds like sex
5) see #4

Cons
1) Pricey
2) Lose VTEC kick-in sound and power spike
3) No gains in peak HP
4) Car is technically faster, but not by much over stock ECU

[tehcodeman]

Here's the graphs from Hondata:

http://www.hondata.com/images/reflash_06civic_hdr_intake.gif

That "kick" you feel at VTEC on the stock ECU (green line) is the dramatic jump in torque. You can see how it's not quite as crazy with the reflash, but you get the torque much earlier in the RPM band.

[Ryan]

Thanks for the graphs, I saw them on Hondata.com too. I guess that I'm gonna opt for the reflash instead of replacing my exhaust. I read that the bcrh had a 2.5 inch collector plate, and that it would bolt up nicely to our stock exhaust. Since the header is the "real" exhaust mod on our car, does anyone have any hard data to show why it would be a bad idea to go hondata and race header on stock exhaust? I see the cat back as providing little benefit for the $$, plus I think the noise would be alot less annoying without it. Thoughts? Oh, and would anyone want to help me install the header? Matticus???? I'll drive out and pay for food too. I'll do most of the work, just having the experienced guidance would be helpful. Thanks!

[tehcodeman]

You'd be fine with the stock exhaust. But the intake and header are essential before going with the reflash. Definitely get an exhaust down the road though if you want to take full advantage of the setup. There are some relatively quiet ones out there.

And find someone with a lift for the header install if you can. It's not very fun to do it on jackstands...trust me.

[Ryan]

I'm feeling it!! All this si had was a cai and bcrh. The s2k had single exhaust.

DkLCD6G3rWQ

[Matticus]

Iono, I guess I see it differently because I needed an EMS . . . at one time. The reflash seems VERY expensive for the extra area under the curve you are gaining.

[tehcodeman]

The reflash seems VERY expensive for the extra area under the curve you are gaining.

It definitely is overpriced. I could understand someone feeling a bit disappointed after spending that kind of money. But you're paying for the earlier Vtec engagement and better driveability more than any hp/tq gain.

And the purchase is good towards K-pro....whenever that finally comes out.

[Ryan]

When I buy my header, do I need to buy an exhaust gasket too? If so, any suggestions?

[Matticus]

When I buy my header, do I need to buy an exhaust gasket too? If so, any suggestions?

If the header doesn't come with one, just reuse the stock gasket. It may need to be trimmed out a little but, it's not a big deal. :thumbsup:

[Ryan]

Thanks!